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Poll: Marvin Harrison - WR - Ind *vs* Randy Moss - WR - Oak
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Marvin Harrison - WR - Ind *vs* Randy Moss - WR - Oak

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Old 07-12-2006, 08:27 PM   #1
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If you need a refresher on the rules for the series or a run down of previous match-ups? Here is the rules and history thread:
"Close Calls 2006" - A Sportsoutlaw.com Exclusive
Remember, this is based on re-draft leagues.
Today's Match-up:

Marvin Harrison - WR - Ind *vs* Randy Moss - WR - Oak

Last Year's Stats:
Marvin Harrison - 15 gms - 82 rec - 1146 yds - 12 TD's
Randy Moss - 16 gms - 60 rec - 1005 yds - 8 TD's

Two of the best WR's of their time. But who still has it? Has Marvin his the wall of age? Has Randy's sub par conditioning caught up with him over the years? Can Marvin keep up the TD production another year? Can Randy return to the TD king that he was in Minnesota? These are the questions you must answer in today's "Close Call."
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:20 PM   #2
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this one hurts me.

[commence benedict arnold]

it simply has to be harrison at this point. the colts should be passing as much or more than always this season, and harrison will get his, just like he does every year. he was a top 5 WR last season despite the fact that he was playing with basically only one hand for a large part of the season due to injury AND he pretty much took the last two games off.

so before you point to things like, oh look, harrison's receptions have declined for four straight years, let me beat you to it.
*in 2002 harrison had 143 receptions, an NFL record -- youre kinda bound to decline after that.
*in 03, harrison had 94 in only 15 games for a pace right at 100, which is consistent with his career.
*in 04 when the colts blitzkreiged the NFL offensively, harrison had only 86 catches AND he played all 16 games, right? yeah, he played in all 16, but how many second halfs did he sit out, and how much less did he play while sitting out resting for the playoffs? i think we can safely say he was again at a pace for 95-100... declining slightly for age, but still awesome.
*last year in 05, he had only 82 catches, his lowest since 1999 oh no! again, i point out that he played hurt much of the season and also missed the last 1.75 games, so even playing hurt and older, he was still on pace for 92 catches. also worth noting that his YPC, something you'd expect to deline with age, was his highest last year since 2001 (14.0).

this season, harrison wont be winning any games by 30, and he wont be sitting out resting up for the playoffs, he'll be fighting for them. its a different colts team with edge gone, and its one that will play a passing ball control attack and continue to score points through the air. harrison has had 10-15 TDs for *SEVEN* consecutive seasons. read that again.

this guy IS consistency. theres only one other guy in NFL history to have seven consectuive double digit receiving TD seasons, and his name is jerry rice. in fact, compare rice's first 10 full years to harrison's 10 full years. they're eerily similar, and rice isnt actually that much better.

harrison will catch around 90 passes again. he'll have around 13 YPC again, for close to 1200 yards again. he'll score double digits again. *yawn* only the greatest, most consistent WR of our era.

with randy, you simply dont know what youre going to get at this point. hes had a lot of recurring injuries the last two seasons, and his receptions and speed have taken a huge visible hit. even if he can get his TDs up to 10-12 again to compete with harrison, his yardage isnt comprable anymore. yes, moss is still freakish enough to possibly go on a tear and be the #1 WR, but hes also injury prone enough to be the #20 or #30 WR. harrison will end up in the top 5, just like he always does.

as a matter of fact, im comparing their numbers, and take a look. i dont even believe it honestly. consider the last seven years, while harrison and moss have both been in their prime. actually, side note, even though harrison's career is two years longer, moss's prime is actually a season longer since he was a stud in 98, and harrison wasnt til 99. but compare them from 99-05 over that seven year span.

*moss had more receptions ONE time, and it was the randy ratio year. in fact harrison has averaged TWENTY FIVE catches more per season over the last seven years.
*moss has had more yardage TWO times. the randy ratio year and in 2000 by a whopping 24 yards.
*moss has had more touchdowns TWO times, the same years as the yardage.

so in the last seven years... randy moss was ridiculous one season and killed everyone. another season he barely edged harrison, by under 10 points. and in the other five years, marvin either beat or spanked him.

if you want to compare it even further, do it. harrison kills moss at first down catches all by the randy ratio year. but at least moss has long balls, right? nope, theyre pretty much even in 20+ yard catches over the seven years, and moss has the slightest of margins in 40+ yard catches.

ladies and gentlemen, randy moss has always been and will always be the better "freak." he will wow you, and he'll impress, and he'll make you long for more.

but marvin harrison has been and always will be the greatest WR of this era. and i think i finally just realized it.

there's still time for you too...
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller_time View Post

Last Year's Stats:
Marvin Harrison - 15 gms - 82 rec - 1146 yds - 12 TD's
Randy Moss - 16 gms - 60 rec - 1005 yds - 8 TD's
This may be the first time I have looked at those numbers together closely.

Moss was hurt most of the year. The Raiders as an entire team played absolutely horribly. Finally, it was a move to a new team and you have to expect a little setback while you get familiar with the offense. In the case of the Raiders, nobody really seemed familiar with the offense, defense, or special teams. These guys were the Bad News Bears of the NFL.

Through all of that, there was 140 yards and 4 touchdowns sepeating these two guys last year.

Harrison's receptions have been declining, while Reggie Wayne has been becoming a more important part of this offense. I expect to see Harrison take a further step back this year while Wayne steps up and becomes the guy in Indianapolis.

Moss, on the other hand should see nothing but improvement, and significant improvement at that. The team will be better coached this year, Moss has a quarterback with much more big play ability throwing him the ball once again.

I expect Moss to easily be a top 10 receiver this year, I dont see that for Harrison this year. This is not a matter of playing Devils advocate either. I have Moss ranked 4 positions higher than Harrison, and considering moving Moss up higher. With one draft started this season, I have taken Moss at 3.01 while Harrison was still available.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:34 PM   #4
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Look, I'm honestly tired of all the excuses for Moss. Every player plays hurt, the difference between Moss and most other players is that they have the drive and dedication to work through it, all that Moss has in natural talent and now that his body is failing him he's a second-rate WR at best. Harrison played one less game, which indicates he was also hurt and seriously enough to sideline him, and if he'd played all sixteen then 88 catches, 1225 yards, and 13 TDs isn't a stretch.

Also, let's not forget that Harrison has consistently played deep into the playoffs, yet he hasn't been slowing down much. Moss, by comparison, has no such history and yet injuries has plagued him for three years; his lack of dedication is certainly starting to bite him in the ass.
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DearbornDolfan View Post
Harrison played one less game, which indicates he was also hurt and seriously enough to sideline him,
If I recall correctly, it was week 17 when he sat b/c they had everything wrapped up, not b/c of injury. If the game meant anything, he would have played.
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:42 AM   #6
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Groin injuries have a tendency to make players miss games. Moss played with it all year and was limited in what he could do. Even then, he was the best receiver Oakland had and still is. I would imagine his off-season regimine addressed getting completely healed and being better prepared for the upcoming season.

Dearborn, I don't really follow your comments about Moss lacking drive and dedication. In Minnesota he was hobbling on and off the field all season, but the bottom line is he was still going out there and doing what he could to help the team. Last year, rather than sitting out for a few weeks, he continued to play. Not sure how you can question someone's dedication in a case like this.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:03 PM   #7
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Sorry Mike, I'm with the others on this one, if it comes to it I take Harrison ten out of ten times.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:13 PM   #8
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Simple, a groin injury is either serious enough to sideline or it isn't, there is no inbetween. If he's playing on a seriously hurt groin, then he's a fucking idiot that deserves to have his career shorted. If he's hobbling around on a tweaked groin muscle, then he's a pussy and my point about drive and dedication is proven; oh, and he's still a fucking idiot.

Frankly, I don't know which is more likely. That he's merely a fucking idiot or that's he's a world-class wimp on top of it. I'd hope an NFL player didn't exhibit the latter character trait, but one never knows. Oh, and btw, either way his utility on a fantasy roster is severely compromised, so it's Harrison 10/10.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller_time View Post
If I recall correctly, it was week 17 when he sat b/c they had everything wrapped up, not b/c of injury. If the game meant anything, he would have played.

Ah, that's right. I forgot teams did that now.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:11 PM   #10
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Sorry Mike, I'm with the others on this one, if it comes to it I take Harrison ten out of ten times.
No need to apologize for taking the wrong player.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:29 PM   #11
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did anyone even read or comment on the analysis between moss and harrison in my post? stop comparing talent people, LOOK at the numbers. i was shocked honestly.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:32 PM   #12
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I read, I just disagree with the analysis regarding Harrison. When this team is fighting for a win, they will be going to Wayne more than Harrison. That is the theory I am standing behind until I see the Colts doing differently this year.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:34 PM   #13
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Yeah, but how often do they actually fight for a win? When it's the first team playing, they are blow a team away or become league-renowned choke artists.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:46 PM   #14
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Their biggest fight last year was against Pittsburgh and they lost. The balls were going to Wayne in that game.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:59 PM   #15
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You answered you own theory, they were going to Wayne all game


AND THEY LOST
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