Well, maybe if you were more concerned with proper syntax in your posts, Zepp, instead of always being overly concerned with trying to prove that you are a football guru, I wouldn't have made that mistake.

I dont have to prove Im a football guru. That is patently obvious.

By the way just to further my point...as much of an asshole as Moss has been....he would've been drafted 1st overall if all NFL teams knew how good he would've been...despite his attitude problems.

So, you are saying that off-field actions have no bearing on people's opinions in regard drafting??? You MUST be joking...

Didn't see that. Still, two years in a row with same injury..and forcing the team to burn another first round pick on a wr...is pretty damn close to being a bust.


First, Randy WAS a known commidity, that is WHY he dropped to 20 and didn't go at the top. Second, riding a motorcycle with a unbuckled helmet, popping wheelies which was reported later, as well as speeding...all spells immature.



It has been reported later that he was popping wheelies and speeding as well. Also riding with his helmet unbuckled...immature.



Look, again, put away your homerism.
Lets look at the facts.
He was hurt, and hasn't fully rehabillitated, he has done actions against what his contract calls for, and was known to do other things as well. YOU have NO basis to believe he will be a stud in the Pro's. All you have is conjecture. I have his past bad attitude, his immaturity, and now an even MORE serious injury issue. I am betting I am more right about him than you are.

Honey you need to reread what I wrote. Of course off field stuff comes into play thats why Randy Moss dropped to begin with. What Im saying is that had all those NFL GM's had a crystal ball and would've seen how good he was going to turn out to be...they would've said to hell with off field problems and drafted him first.

Again thats moronic. The Lions aren't going to give up on Charles Rogers and nor should they. They would be absolutely stupid to go ahead and cut him which is what you seem to think they should do according to your logic.

Wrong again. NONE of that was reported. Fact of the matter is he fell off going 30 mph...that is not fast. Riding a motorcycle does not spell immature at all.

Again not immature. You don't have to wear your helmet and popping wheelies is not immature either. By the way genius how the hell can you speed in a parking lot? Get a friggin clue.

Again phic unlike you I actually know a little about football and can see, as can EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THE NFL, that Winslow is a tremendous talent and will be a success in the NFL. I mean there is absolutely NO denying that. You are an absolute MORON to think that he is 1) immature 2) has a bad attitude and 3) should be cut. Again try taking a cold shower to get rid of that big hard on you have for Winslow and take away some of that hatred you have for him.

Fact is you STILL cannot show me ONE INSTANCE in the NFL where he has either shown immaturity or a bad attitude. You are flat stupid to suggest that the Browns should quit on this guy after one year and one injury. But again it doesnt surprise me coming from a guy like you. You absolutely don't know DICK about football. You are nothing more than one of those loudmouth clueless fans, similar to these radio DJ's, who just spout off useless, uninformed clueless opinions that don't have any basis in reality or truth. The absolute ONLY THING you are basing your idiotic opinions on are your hatred for him because he happened to go off after a loss in college. You have no clue about his skills, about his talent and about how good he is. There is absolutely no one...I repeat...NO ONE in the NFL who doesn't think he will be a great tight end. And if someone would suggest what you were to the Browns coaches, or execs or to ANYONE with an NFL title they would be LAUGHED AT as a JOKE!

Zepp's got a point....it would be hard to speed in a parking lot. If you did you might hit a curb or something.

Dude have you ever ridden a motorcycle? I assume none of you terds haven't. If he was actually going any kind of serious velocity when he fell off, I guarantee you he would be an absolutely 10 times worse shape than he is in now. The guy fell off going about 30 mph.....that is not speeding and again you can't friggin speed in a parking lot morons!!

Zepp, it is a fact that the Browns may have a case to demand a return of some of his bonuses, if it is shown that he was driving in a wreckless fashion. That is for courts to determine, not you. He may be placed on the "non-football" injury list and their obligation to pay him anything for the time he misses is removed.
Should they give up on him? I have not said that, nor has anyone else done so. Can he return to his previous form? Hard to say. Knee injuries slow people down and speed was always a big part of his game. They also take agility away. Will he be as good after his rehab as he was before (by the way, a game and a half is not a reasonable amount of time to determine whether a guy is a "stud" or not)? Again, hard to say.
Let him learn to buckle his helmet on and take a bit more care riding his motorcycle.
As to not being able to speed in a parking lot, well, I guess when a person drives an under-powered car like you must it is difficult. If one drives a reasonably powerful motorcycle, it can attain speeds of over 100 MPH in a very short period of time and very small space (watch the drag races from Brainerd, Minnesota if you don't believe it).
Kellen Winslow may have just learned a very, very expensive lesson. I hope his career is not cut short because of it.

Hard to call Winslow a bust. He got hurt in his rookie season, one that was looking very promising. This year he got hurt in an act of stupidity.

The guy is an obvious talent, with a major maturity probolem. I am willing to bet he will have a very successful career when it is all said an done. Provide he can grow up in the next year or so.

No shit captain obvious tell us something we don't know.
you obviously havent been reading this thread and as usual are so full of yourself you just want to see your long winded pointless post up.
yeah I guess EVERYONE in the NFL is wrong then jackass.
I guess you would know since the salary you get wiping peoples asses and changing their diapers can't be much.
Moron...if he was doing 100 mph and fell he would be dead.

Zepp, look at the pictures in the stories about the accident, like this one:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2053831
Prove to me that the bike was only going 30 MPH. I've never said that he was travelling at 100 MPH, that's just more of you attempting to spin out of a tough situation. He was not likely going that fast, but you are the one saying he was only going 30 (by the way, Gary Bussey was only going 25 and hit a curb, causing a severe head injury). At 30, it is not likely he'd have been thrown over the handlebars, as was reported in another story.
Sorry Zepp, but if the story were about Antonio Gates, you'd be saying the same thing that others are saying. The only difference here is that Kellen Winslow played at the U of Miami and has played a game and a half in the NFL.
Nice try, but keep your homerism to yourself. Like I said, all people need to do to get your goat is to tell the truth about the NY Giants, Mets or the Miami Hurricanes. You blow your cool everytime....and the rest of the people reading your drivel laugh at you.
Again, I hope Kellen Winslow recovers fully from this expensive lesson. He could, yet, become a decent player.

Prove to me that you have electrical activity between your ears.
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Again Zepp refuses to accept the facts. Sorry but you have lost the argument, but you should be used to it by now. You simply cannot beat me at a legitimate argument, as you have absolutely no idea how to debate properly. As to electical activity between the ears, you have a far greater amount of proof to provide than I do.
You're just as entertaining here as you were in previous incarnations.
Kellen Winslow may have lost a great deal of money. I hope he learns something from it and makes a full recovery. He may yet become a decent ballplayer, but that is not certain.

I have been thrown over the handlebars riding a bicycle. 30 MPH is more than enough speed for that.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home. It is your business, not mine.
Again, you simply cannot defeat me in a legitimate argument, so you resort to acting like a 3-year old (again, nothing new).
Had Kellen Winslow not attended the U of Miami, your interest would be nil. It is simply another mistake made by one of "your guys" that has come out.
Nice try, but until you have something substantive to add, my suggestion is that you stay behind closed doors and continue doing whatever trips your trigger. I don't need to know about it.
Mojo, I'll concede that point. 30 is plenty fast to get thrown from a bike. Reports on ESPN from the scene were that he was going a bit faster than that and the damage to the bike indicates it as well -- or the bike is a piece of junk.

Its a Suzuki. Trust me, it IS a piece of junk. Everything you see broken in that picture is flimsy, and not made stay together when in an impact of any kind.

That may answer a few questions, but it raises a few more. Why would Kellen Winslow waste his money on a poor piece of equipment? He could certainly afford a bike that is better made than that one was. I question his judgement if he is riding something like that when there are a lot of better machines available. I'm not an expert on bikes, by any means, but, as I have said, reports from the scene stated that he was exceeding 30 MPH when he was injured.
Again, I hope he recovers fully, but this year may be over for him and the Browns may not be liable for any of his salary. A tough, expensive lesson for a young man to learn.