Are you throwing this out as another player example, like Merriman or as a second reason why people are so pissed about the Pats?

Kind of a check on Merriman's situation. Merriman got caught and punished. This just happened to be available this morning. It kind of reinforces what Mike said earlier, that things were in place to handle problems with steroids and such. The big problem now is that this punishment of BB, is the precedence for all situations in the future, and it wasn't strong enough.

As I said before. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Dominoes are gonna start tumbling.

Yes, basically as another player example. I am not pissed at the Pats, and its players. I love the team. I know BB really hurt the organization and the players with this. That is the one thing Pats fan isn't accepting as a reality at this point.

Find the rule where it says, "for use during the game". It does say video devices during the game but that means you can't use the video devices during the game which is not the same thing as, "for use during the game." This is you trying to mix up the wording. The Pats cheated, they knew they were cheating, and they were warned about it before they were caught.

Here is what Goodell said after finding out what the Pats did, "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots...."
NFL rules state "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." They also say all video for coaching purposes must be shot from locations "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
That was re-emphasized in a memo sent Sept. 6 to NFL head coaches and general managers. In it, Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

There you go. Black and White. How in the F#$K do you misinterepret that?

This is the part that has annoyed me the most.

I don't dislike the Patriots in any way, and have no reason to. There are two teams I hate, the Redskins and Eagles. I love dynasties, I love seeing great football, and the Patriots have been playing great football over the years.

Now that the cheating by Management has occured though, I feel that as a fan, I have been cheated.

At this point, just about everybody, except Patriots fans, feel that the Patriots, especially Bill Belichick, got off easily. Especially with that nice contract extension that popped out suddenly.

A couple things factored into this punishment in my opinion.

1. Kraft has quite a bit of power within the league. A very influential person.
2. Kraft and Goodel have a great relationship together, and as a result, I think the buddy system greatly came into play here.

Usually, fans argue about things on message boards, and it all ends there. In this case, it isn't only the fans, but the media is not letting this go, and more importantly, management among other teams aren't letting this go.

As Remote Controller said, this thing has not yet hit the boiling point. I was listening to the radio this morning (John Clayton was talking on a local station here in Dallas), and it is appearing that even Goodell feels like he may have made a big mistake here, which is why the investigation is looking to go so deep. It is as if they are now looking for something more so they can go forward with a suspension.

And if they do find more, and then go forward with a suspension, that still doesn't make it right. He should already be suspended, and any further finding, if they occur, should only increase the suspension.

And believe it or not, I would feel the same way, regardless what team this was happening to, even if it were the team I root for.

Apparently the NFL is investigating to see if past incidents have occurred. I would expect that if they have, as other teams claim, then everybody's favorite cheating coach will be suspended for a significant length of time.

.... here is how the F#$k you misinterepret that:
"any use by any club at any time from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant of any communication or information-gathering equipment other than a Polaroid type camera or field phone, shall be prohibited," which includes, but is not limited to, "videotape machines, telephone tapping, bugging devices or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of the game."
link: Goodell sends out memo that spygames must end

Well explained

So I'm assuming then you're a Dallas fan. So on another note what did you think of about what Jimmy Johnson said on tv when asked if he/Dallas had ever done anything like what the Pats had. He said they didn't videotape, but that he did send interns into opposing teams coaches box to grab any game documents from the trash. I would assume there's nothing on the books about it being against the rules to pick through trash (so I am not equating this to the Pats videotaping) but possessing other teams documents must be a no, no. But JJ freely admitted it on tv. Having a hard copy of play calling notes IMO would certainly give Dallas an advantage against that team the next time they played. I was just surprised he admitted something like that

So I am not a dallas fan but i can comment on this. I think it is ok to do anything/everything that may give your team a competitive edge. If someone is dumb enough to leave plays in the trash then its thier fault. The cowboys once probably accidently came across some plays in the trash during routine cleaning and then have sent scouts thereafter to see if any team repeated the mistake. I cant think of a good example of this right now but will post later when i get one.

Whatever, read what I posted. You can spin it however you want. BB is not stupid and knew exactly what he was doing.

Also, it's obvious you are in denial. You are Pats fan and want to believe that BB made an innocent mistake. With the exception of the Pats and their fans, the rest of the league and the fans believe BB got off easy. So the whole rest of the league and its fans must be wrong and the Pats and their fans must be right. Yep, real objective.

I didn't hear him talk about this, but I have heard others talking about it. I think this was talked about as a result of Belichick's former scout announcing that Belichick had tried to get him to do that by going into the other team's hotel rooms while they were out.

Personally, I think it is sleazy, and cheating, and should have no place in the NFL. However, there is nothing about it that I am aware of in terms of specific rules, and I would expect that if anybody ever got caught doing it, and the commish made a formal announcement specifically saying to stop doing it, then the first person that got caught again should be punished, to the point of suspension.

I realize this thread is now 10 pages long and it would take a while to read it from the begining.... so just to let you know that I have said from the begining:
The Patriots Cheated And Should Be Punished!
the only thing that I am defending is that:
A) Video Taping the other teams defensive signals is the reason the Patriots have been so successfull in the past several years.
B) There is no room for misinterpratation in the "memo" sent out by the commisioner.
C) The punnishment wasn't severe enugh.

I think alot of the problem that I am having is that people (ahem...RC) want the punnishment to reflect the fact that the Patriots were probably doing this sort of thing all along... including the SuperBowl seasons. ... and some want to believe there is more to it than the video taping.
The fact of the matter is that the penalty issued was only for the one incedent of video taping during the 1st qtr of the Jets game... and I feel the punnishment fits the crime of that one rule violation.
Now if more does come of this, like evidence of previous violations or some sort of "radio frequency" nonsense... then let the hammer come down on Bill Belicheat and the rest of the Patriots.

I can agree with this. The punishment is for what it is, the one time catch of this break. However, I happen to believe, that more will come out. And, if more does come out, and they find more instances...I think a more major hammer will drop. All we can do is wait and see.

You're freaking goofy!!!! All I have said is this taints the Organization, Coach, team, and players because of it! I never once said they cheated since their first Super Bowl. I said this incident is going to define them. That is a fact. Carry on, but know what you are taking about!

you forgot the paragraph right above that:

"Please be reminded yet again that a coaching aide, such as a computer or electronic equipment of any kind, other than monitors supplied by the league, are prohibited," the memo said.

plain and simple.

...seems to me you have been saying the punnishment wasn't strong enough all along...
so what you are saying is that $750,000. and a 1st rd draft pick isn't enough for 1 qtr. of videotaping... that never made it into the hands of the team?
Again, thats the largest fine in NFL history and the only time a team has been striped of it's 1st round draft pick. To me, thats pretty extreme. Would it have been better if Belicheat was suspended and the team kept their draft pick? To me, the loss of draft pick hurts the team for years as opposed to just a few games.
... and why do we assume that if Belicheat is suspended the team will lose? I think the draft pick was the best punnishment.