This is also very ignorant! Where do come up with all of these generalizations? Everyone has opinions. You just can't throw a hula hoop around all of them and make such ludicris statments like this. They both, Clemens and Bonds, have one thing in common with BB and the patriots. The black mark on the achievements. That is a given.

the problem here is that it's difficult to judge exactly what the pats did, since the evidence has been destroyed. you must admit that the nfl can't have done that thorough an investigation, since suddenly mr. walsh pops up.

in any case, it doesn't matter how much the cheating helped the team--it was clearly defined as cheating. sneaking around the language of the memo is disingenuous. you know, i know, and bill belichik knew that he wasn't supposed to do it. maybe other teams are doing it, maybe not, but they haven't been caught and i haven't heard other accusations, either.

in any case, the punishment for this is handed out, fine. maybe it wasn't severe enough--i have no idea. however, i do think goodell was wrong to destroy the evidence, and i think it's reasonable to investigate his actions.

IF the pats did tape the rams' SB runthrough, that is a whole new can of beans. but i haven't heard any stories with any real evidence of this, so let's wait and see on that.

i am not looking for any trophies, and i don't really care about more punishments. i just would like to feel that the process is fair and that the league protects us against cheating.

oh, and i love that saying GP.

To me the issue here is not the cheating.

As stated before, that has been decided on, and punishment has been exacted for it. Whether it was a strong enough punishment or not is the question.

That question exists why? Because the NFL and Goodell destroyed the evidence. Why?

If anything comes out of this, I am interested not to nail BB or Pats to another tree, but to know exactly what did happen....but also more importantly, why all evidence was destroyed.

Goodell = Oliver North?????

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Expert on nothing, opinionated on everything...

I am not trying to say that the Patriots knew the SPECIFIC consequences. They did not know what the consequences would involve for getting caught but they did know that the consequences would be "severe". Knowing that they risked major punishment was not an effective deterrent however, even on day 1 of the regular season.

I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that IF a team made it to the Super Bowl legally, what is to stop them from cheating in the big game? Say the Chargers make it all the way to the big dance. Why wouldn't they tape the walk through of the NFC team? Because they might lose the last pick in the first round? It's a risk that a team might be willing to take. The only effective deterrent is to prevent cheaters from winning the Super Bowl.

The Olympics would strip the team of their prize - the only real punishment for cheaters.

Makes sense to me.
I just don't see how this stuff didn't come out with the rest of the "spygate" material. I think it's a bunch of hot air.

The timing is suspect for sure, but no more suspect than Goodell not even talking to Walsh in the first place, especially since he says he "heard rumors of this but couldn't find any substantial evidence." Also, the Pats turned over 6 tapes. I know that teams tape over old tapes, but I thought it was said that BB had a library of all teams. Why wouldn't Goodell go through all of the Pats tapes and determine for himself wether or not there was any illegal taping? By the way, this is not the first time I've said this. I know the timing is suspect, but I've had these questions since the day Goodell destroyed the tapes. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Oh and by the way, GP, you missed my point about risking the taping as usual. I'm saying teams trade their future for the present all of the time. Also, if the odds are you get caught every 5 years, wouldn't you risk that? You say, No, because you're assuming that there was no big advantage gained from the taping. #1 If there was no advantage, why do it. #2 We have no idea how much of an advantage was gained because the tapes were destroyed.

I just want to know where I fit in Group A or Group B??

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We fall under group B haters Nikki. Even though I am a Raiders fan, I used to be group A, but that changed this season.

LOL, I'm a Group B hater.

Funny that I fall into this group when all I did was talk good about the Patriots and say how much I enjoyed watching them...... Until the cheating crap broke out this season.
But yeah, I just hate them because they beat my Cowboys

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I never really liked or disliked them until this season they are a bunch of douche bags and the coach is a cheat. Maybe you should do a group C for people who don't like douche bags and cheaters.

I'm still on the fence with you Nikki. Be a good girl and we'll see.

You might not like my last post then.

Oh, stop it. If the Patriots only one that first SuperBowl and then went into the crapper for 4 years, let your Cowboys walk all over them, you wouldn't care 2 turds about them.
Kind of like when the Steelers knowingly exceeded the salary cap. Who cares, they stunk.

Also what do we get for being in certain groups? Are the benefits in Group A better then Group B?

agreed.

but gmrcharity is the only one allowed to have an opinion on the matter, so, to qoute Orgazmo, I guess we should all go "pack sand".

Oh, lets see who might fit into group B....
Rams fans.. after the giant SB upset.
Steeler fans... had their bags packed before the AFC championship game that the Pats won that year.
Colts fans... not so much last year but in previous years the Pats pushed them from the playoffs more than once.
Charger fans... Pats wern't supposed to knock the best team out of the playoffs last year.
Eagle fans... McNabb should have done what Eli did this year. Don't blame cameras for McNabb coughing up a lung on the final drive of your SB.
Panther fans... do they even have fans?
AFC East... all teams that lose to the Pats twice each year should hate reguardless of cameras.
I'm sure that I'm missing a few. I'll need to read a few more posts to determine some of you. Carry on.

Douche bags are quite sanitary. They clean like the dickins. Some may take that as a compliment.
"Cheat" is such a negative word. Why don't you try "rule infractioner" or "conformingly challenged".

If it walks like a duck......

I know you group A and B'ers are all rubbing your hands together with that excited look on your faces, just waiting for news of the Patriots Belichick caught doing SOMETHING. It just isn't going to happen. There is nothing else.
Now move along, nothing to see here.