If you need a refresher on the rules for the series or a run down of previous match-ups? Here is the rules and history thread:
http://www.sportsoutlaw.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5078
Remember, this is based on re-draft leagues.

Today's Match-up:
Jake Delhomme - QB - Car *vs* Michael Vick - QB - Atl

Last Year's Stats:
Delhomme - 16 gms - 3,421 pa yds - 24 TD's - 16 INT's - 31 ru yds - 1 TD
Vick - 15 gms - 2,412 pa yds - 15 TD's - 13 INT's - 597 ru yds - 6 TD's

Today's "Close Call" places two QB's that get their points in two completely different ways. Delhomme is a pocket passer with a great WR. He puts up both good yardage and TD totals, but adds nothing in the way of rushing stats. Then come Vick, man are those passing stats less then desirable, but man can the kid make things happen with those feet. Is this the year Vick blows up as has been predicted for years??? Will Delhomme continue to make his case as a solid top QB??? These are the questions you must answer in today's "Close Call."

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i'll do the math for those of you who dont feel like it. im using standard scoring, like in the current mock.

an average game for delhomme: 215 yards, 1.5 TDs, 2 rush yards, 0 TDs = 14 fantasy points
an average game for vick: 150 yards, 1 TD, 35 rush yards, 0.4 TDs

that 150/1 in the air and 35 on the ground is not expecting much of vick. thats just another average day, or less. and yet, if he doesnt score a rush TD, thats 13 points -- one less than delhomme. any week where he rips off a ton more yardage, or decides to throw more than 1 TD, or rushes for a TD, hes going to be up close to 20 points.

the negatives? he'll disappear a few times. and he'll miss a couple with injury. fine. youre not taking vick until the 7th round anyways. id rather bench him twice agaisnt tampa and twice more for injury. this is a deep league. there are a lot of solid fantasy backups, worth not much less than delhomme. i can pick up favre or brooks or brad johnson or any number of other options a few rounds later and play them 4-6 times, then play vick and expect top 5-7 QB numbers during those 10 good matchups.

plus, all of that is just considering he repeats last year's performance. if he ever breaks out -- rushes for 10+ TDs, or nears 1000 yards, or starts passing for anything even remotely decent -- hes a fantasy goldmine. and even if he doesnt, hes the better pick here imo.

This is a very interesting matchup. I was sure I would take Delhomme, but with the talk about some offensive changes and working in designed runs for Vick, I am gonna have to think about this one. Will have my answer later today.

Good matchup Miller

Yep definately a good one. Vick scored higher in our league because of his running yards. My biggest concern with scrambling QBs, is that they are placed in situations that are begging for injuries. Mike's point about designed running routes for Vick doesnt make me feel any better about it. If he has to keep running (or chooses to keep running) bootlegs and what have you, its going to catch up to him. Ive always liked Delhomme and probably give more worth to him then I should but IMHO Carolina's running game is going to get off to a slow start behind Foster (Im betting not at all/ I might have already mentioned it though )I think Delhomme will have to throw alot more this year till they move on past Foster and they have plenty of talent at WR to get it done.

I actually like Delhomme more this year than last. Why? They should have a much more balanced attack this year. Now....I know most of you say wait....doesn't that hurt him? Yes and no. I kind of see it holistically. First with the addition of DeAngelo Williams, they will have a solid run game all year. Second, with more support from the running game, plus the addition of Keyshawn, Delhomme will have less pressure on him, and S.Smith will be more free for the deep passes. So, while attempts will drop....yards per catch, throw and Tds could increase. I also think the more balanced offense will make the defense even more potent, which will inturn give the ball to Delhomme even more.

My issues with Vick are multiple. I have seen little or no improvement by Vick in his passing ability or accuracy. If Crumpler gets hurt...you have NO passing game. I am actually regretting the plan to have more runs for Vick(if I was a Vick owner) as he has a propensity to get hurt and miss games. I am also more down on Vick due to the dire clutching Atlanta has done with Schaub. I would not be shocked to see Vick up for trade next year...if they resign Schaub.

All in all, for consistancy of pts, and for potential for big passing games and tds...I just like Delhomme better.

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Give me Michael Vick.

• Running Quaterbacks/injuries - There is a reason why scrambling quarterbacks often have an increased tendency to get hurt. It is because they don't run smart. When quarterbacks take off running, a play is generally breaking down, and you have no idea where everyone is. By adding designed runs, this doesn't mean the Falcons will be coming out in the wishbone. I expect these plays to very much reemble pass plays, only after a delay, Vick will be running, and unlike previous years, the offensive line/TE/RB all know it is going to happen and they will be setting up blocks for it.
  The best coaches dont coach strictly by a system, they coach to players strengths. I think this offense, if it all works out right, will make Vick much more a two dimensional threat, improve his stats, and keep him healthy at the same time.

Delhomme is going to give you Delhomme numbers, most likely along the same lines as we expect from him, nothing better. I the past they have had multiple running backs. This year, guess what? they got multiple running backs. The Panthers will be contenders because they will be throwing less, running more. If Delhomme hits the 29 touchdown stats from 2004, it will be once again because they are losing. I dont see that happening. 22-24 touchdown passes and 3400 yards when all is said and done.

Vick has an offense that is finally developing to the point he has some receivers he can throw the ball to. Wont be anything out of the ordinary, I think to see him approach 3000 passing yards and 20 touchdowns in this offense (could very well be higher if this offense truly clicks like I think it will). I also expect him to be around 600-700 yards rushing with a few touchdowns there.

I'm sorry, I am hearing all of what you are saying, but I just dont like the inconsistency of Vick. Lets look at some numbers: I will use the last years, as those are the years that Delhomme has been a full time starter.

2003:

Vick started 4 games: Passing 50 - 585 plus 4td and 3int's plus 255 rushing plus 1 td

Delhomme - 3200 yards - 19 tds, 16 ints plus 39 yards rushing and 1 td

EDGE: Delhomme

2004:
Vick - 2313 yards - 14 tds, 12 ints plus 902 yards and 3 tds rushing

Delhomme - 3886 yards - 29tds, 15 ints plus 79 yards and 1 td rushing

Edge: Delhomme

2005:

Vick - 2412 yards - 15tds, 13 ints plus 597 yards and 6 tds rushing

Delhomme - 3421 - 24 tds, 16ints plus 31 yards and 1 td rushing

Edge: Delhomme

So while I agree that Vick has this wondrous upside that we keep hearing about, until he hits those numbers I will stick with Delhomme.

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Forgot to add that Delhomme has only missed 1 game in 3 years, while Vick has never played a complete season.

I guess scoring methods are going to come into play. but looking at 2005, assuming 4 points for passing td's and 1 per/25 yards. 1/10 yards rushing, 6 points r/TD

Delhomme - 241
Vick - 251

I can't help but buy into that offense coming together this year as well, which should only help Vick capitalize on the upside.

Well lets just say that unless he fell to me in the 8th round or so, I probably wouldn't take him, as I am not a big fan. Would rather see Schaub running that offense.

The injury risk is definately something to take into consideration though. Vick played 15 games last year, but he missed time in some of those. When I take Vick, I am taking a risk in that I am depending on the new offensive design will help keep him healthy, as will the younger talent around him being more developed at this point.

Good points....

However, on this new offense stuff...I just don't buy it. They are programed for and set up for a west coast type offense. They rely on Dunn and Duckett and Griffin to run the ball and move the line of scrimmage. When they pass, they will use precise routes and it requires and accurate passer. Honestly, if Vick were in Oakland...where a deep passing game will be used...I would probably have a different point of view. Vick is simply not a WC qb. I agree with Taz...I would much rather see Schaub in...and I think they would be much more successful doing that.

I admit, I have Delhomme ranked ahead of Vick at them moment, but the arguments are getting me to think this one over......Not sure what side of the fence I'm on at the moment.....Will post my vote on this one later, would love to hear some other opinions on this.

Let me know when you get balanced on top of that fence. I will sneak up behind and push

for the record, with a standard scoring system like the one used in a mock draft...
2005:
vick - 252
delhomme - 242

2004:
vick - 257
delhomme - 285

2003:
vick - injured for the year during preseason, so wouldnt have been drafted high at all, then came back for 4 games at the end of the season (for the record, he averaged 17.7 ppg those four games, or 284 over a season)
delhomme - 215

now both of those healthy vick years, he missed a game. while all of you seem to be discounting that, dont you understand that you already knew vick was out for the game, so you plugged in your backup? everyone here talks about there being plenty of competent backups. your backup goes for 200/1 and 10 yards rushing. thats 13 points. pretty poor showing, but thats another 13 you have to add in to vick's numbers in 04 and 05 for the season total points you will get at QB.

in 05, that leaves vick a clear winner. in 04 that still leaves delhomme a clear winner. same margin both times. over delhomme's 3 healthy years, he has averaged 247 a season. over vick's 2 healthy years, he has averaged 255 a season (plus whatever you get from the backup QB in the 16th game both time). advantage vick, by 1 ppg... and thats with vick having two "poor years" by peoples standards, and with delhomme having his likely career year with 29 TDs two years ago.

if you think delhomme is going to match his career year and approach 2004 numbers, nearing 30 TDs, then youre going to have to take him. but i dont really see why you would project that for him. meanwhile, if you think vick is going to keep struggling with only 150/1 in the air each week and 35 on the ground with some TDs mixed in... then you better take those struggling numbers, cuz theyre scoring you more points in the end.

Delhomme

OK, I'm going with my original thought and sticking with Delhomme, but Da Bomb & Mike make some great arguments for Vick and this is one that copuld change in my rankings many times between now and Sept. Delhomme is a poor mans Brady. Week in and week out you know what your gonna get. You also know when the season is over, he'll toss around 3500 yds and 25 TD's or so. That kind of consistency is nice to have at QB. Waiting for Vick to blow up is like waiting to win the lottery....you keep playing....and keep saying this is the time.....yet you keep tossing away the loosers. I also like having a QB with a STUD WR, Delhomme has that in Steve Smith. He also has another weapon with Key Johnson now to allow him to spread the ball around a little more which should help him increase his stats as well. I'm sticking with the safe one for now, I'll take Delhomme.

i just dont understand the whole "safe" route thing. delhomme isnt a lock to throw 25 TDs -- hes done so once in his career. and as far as safe, even with vick playing poorly the last umpteen years, hes still shown himself to be a better pick than the "safe" delhomme.

bottom line, if you expect delhomme to throw under 25 TDs, then vick is going to be the better choice. and if you expect him above 25, then he ought to be your starting QB this year because he'll be top 5 in the league.

Sorry but I think you are wrong here. First Delhomme came to Carolina as a career backup. Coaching staff didn't give him free reign, thus his stats were down. Not to mention the one year you post he had no Steve Smith. Do I think he will throw 30 again...probably not. However unlike you I KNOW Vick will not play a whole season. Will not happen. I also think he has only digressed..and is not the pure run threat he was. He has been beaten up too much. Take Vick. Get the one or two wins with his big rush yards he MIGHT get you. I will take Delhomme, and his solid 20-22pts he gets me...and see ya as I win a title.

Don't see how you are going to take home a title, drafting the guy that scored less fantasy points last year.

With the offense being changed to fit Vick, and the development of his receivers, Vick will see better numbers than last year. You might take home a title, but not in any competition against me.